Bill Maher Says Abortion Is "Kind of Murder," But He's Okay With That
After overseeing 35,000 abortions in Dallas, Texas, Carol Everett knows that abortion is more than "kind of murder."
When I heard Bill Maher’s statement, I felt compelled to share this short (3 minute) clip below. My previous interview with Carol Everett was ringing in my ears, and I wanted to share her perspective and personal testimony. And I hope you will take the time to listen to our complete interview below. It is an incredible story of God’s grace.
From Abortion Clinic to Pro-Life: Carol Everett's Journey
A Story of Redemption from the Abortion Business
As we take a stand for the unborn, please stand with us with your prayers and support. A rough copy of my interview with Carol is below. In the next couple of days I will be sending you a prophecy update.
Longing for His Return,
Pastor John
Live the Word, Box 1729, Coppell, TX 75019
Transcript of Interview
John Nieder
Well, today I would like to begin to share with you an incredible story. A story of a young, wife and mother of two who eventually found herself in the abortion industry. In fact, she eventually was running the largest abortion clinic in the city of Dallas. Her name is Carol Everett. She had a daughter, age eight, and a son ten years of age when she found out she was pregnant. And this happened to occur right as abortion was being legalized in our country.
Carol Everett
Two weeks after abortion was legalized in the United States. January 22, 1973, I found myself pregnant. And initially I was very excited, because a woman is always excited when she finds out she's pregnant. And then went home, talked to my husband about it, and a baby was just not convenient at that time. You know, we were going along very successful, we thought, and, we didn't want to think about 02:00am feedings and diaper bags and all the things that go along with those problem pregnancies. Now, I believe I had the abortion just to save the relationship. It was really to that point, and I thought this was the only way to save the relationship. And of course, it destroyed the relationship.
John Nieder
So where does a woman turn at this point? Abortion has now been legalized. She has a pregnancy that her husband does not want her to continue. She believes she has to go forward with an abortion in order to appease him and to maintain the marriage. And so what does she do? Well, in this case, Carol, turned to her doctor, thinking that the doctor would give her some, well, wise counsel
Carol Everett
I called my doctor, actually expecting to be sent away to California, New York, or even New Mexico for an abortion. And when I said, we don't want to have this baby. We want to have an abortion, he said, oh, no problem. Bring in your husband's urine. The pregnancy test will be negative in the hospital. We can call it a D&C. We'll do the abortion here in the hospital, and your insurance will pay for it. Without thinking, I went in the hospital the next day, and literally, as I awoke from the anesthesia in the hospital, I picked up the telephone and called my office and said, send me some work. Give me something to do. Not realizing I was already running from that decision that would affect the remainder of my life.
John Nieder
And that is true of so many women that go forward with an abortion. Carol Everett is, a case in point. I asked Carol, and by the way, our conversation was, years after the abortion, I asked her if she was able to, well, forget, the memory of it all. Is she able to put it in the back of her mind. And, well, I think I knew the.
Carol Everett
Answer, you see, I knew I'd killed my baby. And when a woman is pregnant, she knows she's pregnant. She's excited, just as I was. And then when you know that baby's gone and especially when you know you did it, you feel that you kill that baby. And it's something that's so bad you can't express it to anyone. You can't tell your closest friend, you can't tell your husband, you can't tell your parents. You can't tell anyone how terrible you feel about what you've done. And you continually do it.
John Nieder
And, ah. Carol's experience is not unusual. Women who have abortions a lot of times find themselves unable to put the memory • out,of their minds. And so they continue on, they press on. But a lot, a lot of. Of times, it impacts future behavior. And that's what happened with Carol. Did it help her marriage? Well, that wasn't the case. And in fact it ultimately led to its destruction.
Carol Everett
Oh, no. I went home and I was very angry at him. And of course, I couldn't verbalize that anger. So I started having an affair. To really get back at him for what I felt he had forced me to do. You see, it didn't really stop there. Some other things happened. The first thing was I started getting drunk one day a month. And, you know, I'd never had anything to drink. And when a mother suddenly starts getting drunk one day a month and, her children don't know what's wrong, her husband doesn't know what's wrong. But that didn't solve it either. So then I went to the doctor and said, I'm depressed. And he gave me a mood elevator that was so strong, you took it at night when you went to bed. And then you would get up in the morning in kind of a daze. And you would go through the day in a fog. And because I was in the medical profession, it was easy for me to get more and more. And so I started abusing these prescription drugs. So I was trying to run, but couldn't get away. • • And finally evolved into seeing a psychiatrist at the daily. But because they didn't know about post abortion syndrome. And no one thought there was anything wrong with having this abortion. I mean, after all, it was this marvelous thing for women to be able to make this choice. the doctor didn't know what was wrong with me. He literally told me that I should just get a divorce from my husband and have an affair. With him. And literally, as I look back, I changed everything I could. I changed my job. Then I went to work for the pharmaceutical company.
John Nieder
Well, while she's trying to come up with some way to forget the memory of her abortion, at the same time she's trying to, cut a path without her husband still raising a young daughter and a young son.
I asked Carol to explain how, she took the next step in the direction of eventually becoming the number one abortion provider in the city of Dallas in the early stages of Roe versus Wade.
In my time with Carol, I did some role playing. I took the. The place of the young woman with an unwanted pregnancy and pose the kind of questions that I thought, might be posed. One of which, of course, is this. And that is, Is it a baby, though? Some people think it's a baby, but it's not really my baby. Right? And Carol's response was well schooled in the marketing of abortions.
Carol Everett
Oh, no, no, no. It's not a baby. It's a glob of tissue. Maybe, uh, a product of conception, a blood clot. But it is not a baby. They lie to them. They never tell them that at the moment of conception, everything is there that that baby ever needs to be farmed. You know, we are products of conception, too. What they actually do is find out what her problem is. And then they start to show her the way they can solve that problem for her. So abortion is the answer. Nothing else. You have to be that girl's friend. You have to be the authority figure in her life. Because, you see, at that particular point in time, you don't want her talking to anyone else. Just to the counselor, just to the person that's going to sell her the abortion. And if she can't get her in for the abortion appointment, she knows if she can get her in the clinic, she has 95% chance of completing her. So just get her in for the pregnancy test. Don't let her go to one of those crisis pregnancy centers. They might tell her something else.
John Nieder
It's heartbreaking to think of the level of deception and manipulation that takes place when a, young woman is struggling emotionally with her pregnancy, Carol pointed out that when a young woman comes to an abortion clinic, things are staged. They know how to make that girl as comfortable as possible. Hoping that she'll move forward with the, with the abortion.
Carol Everett
So she greets her and says, hello, Linda, I'm Carol, and I'm so glad you're here. And she'll hug her or something. And so this girl thinks, my goodness, she is my friend. She is my buddy. And then they take them back to the lab and they do the pregnancy test. And they let her watch. You know, they tell her what they're adding. And they show her a chart on the wall that says, this is positive, this is negative. And they let her watch so that she recognizes the moment they do if it's positive or negative. And if it's positive, well, she'll cry a moment and go on. And then the next question is, do you have your money? Do you want to do it today?
John Nieder
Do you have the money? That's the big question, isn't it? When you hear of the level of deception that takes place when a young woman enters an abortion clinic and you think of the greed that's behind it, and a deception that takes place where someone can literally act as if this is not a baby being formed in the womb, It's incredible. Really isn't. That's why we must speak up. I asked Carol when she ran the abortion clinic journalism back then, would at least explore what was going on in these clinics. And in fact, in the case of her clinic, there was an investigation that ultimately really was used to bring a different perspective to Carol Everett's life.
Carol Everett
They came into our clinic in 1983. And it was actually a, large television station. They sent six women into our abortion clinic. And they were all wired for sound. And they all came in with non pregnant urine to see if we would try to do an abortion on them. And we so convinced one of the reporters she was there for like 2 hours, that she left our abortion clinic, went directly to her doctor, who told her, no, she was not pregnant. Some people in the Dallas area went in clinics using the same techniques, the wiring for sound and everything, and they attempted to do abortions on women that were not pregnant last year.
John Nieder
Now, I know it's hard to imagine, but doctors, were doing, quote, abortions on women who were not pregnant. In other words, it was a total sham in a number, situations of. And Carol Everett points out, this is extremely dangerous.
Carol Everett
And that's much worse because, you see, when a woman is pregnant, her uterus is soft and it's easier to dilate. And when she’s not pregnant, it's very hard and very difficult to dilate. So the abortion procedure is much more painful first, and then the chances of her uterus ever clamping down on a pregnancy normally after that traumatic dilation are probably less. But what's even worse is the doctor has to prove to everyone in the room that he did an abortion to the nurse, to the counselor and to himself. And so he scrapes out more of the lining of the uterus and the chances of, sterility are far greater in that woman.
John Nieder
Now, let me warn you, I asked Carol another question, and her answer is heavy. All right? What happens during late term abortions in the second and third trimester abortions?
Carol Everett
I held the baby in place with my right hand so that, the doctor would know where all the different parts were. And my job was to tell him, the head's here, the buttocks are here, the feet are here. Point with my left hand to what I was holding with my right hand. And tell him where he wanted to go next. Because, you see, he's working in a blind space, and he needs someone to help him. You can feel them move, and you can feel them as they pull away from the instruments. In retrospect, I know now those babies were in a lot of pain. You have to be sure that everything's there, and you don't want to miss any majority piece, and then a woman's uterus will start clamping down and pushing things out. So then you can tell if her uterus is clamping down. You can tell if it's free. And again, that was my job, to check with my hand to be sure that everything was out and that her uterus was going down to normal size to remove the placenta, everything.
John Nieder
And now, going back a number of years, I want you to hear what took place at Carol's clinic to a 32 year old woman who had two young boys. She was 20 weeks pregnant. Let, me again point out this took place years ago, but I have to suspect that the tragedy of this is still being played out in some abortion clinics across the country.
Carol Everett
She did come into the clinic. She didn't want an abortion. She was 20 weeks. I remember she was a beautiful woman. I was up in my office, and the doctor came up front and said, come back to the recovery room. And I went back there, and, there was blood everywhere. It was on the wall, it was on the bed. She was bathed in blood. I'd never seen so much blood. I'm an operating room technician. • • He said to me, you know, she's had a clot and she's passed it, and her uterus is clamping down. And I've told the nurse, there's a nurse there to massage her fundus, which is the top of the uterus, and the uterus will clamp down and push out. When that happens. She said, all right, she's going to be fine. I have a date. I'm going to leave you discharge her when she stops bleeding. So I'd never seen that much blood again. So I stayed back in the room with him. I didn't go back to my office. And the massage of the uterus did stop the bleeding. And we thought that she was okay, but her blood pressure was low. And we looked at her chart, and again, I'm not a doctor. Her blood pressure was high when she came in, but she could have been nervous. It went down, and that's when she was bleeding. Came up a little bit, but it was not normal. She kept telling us that she always had low blood pressure. And we tried to call the doctor and couldn't get him. She'd stopped bleeding. Everything was fine. We finally let her go. Her boyfriend called the doctor at 03:00 in the morning and said, she's cramping heavily. And he, without taking a history, said, put her in a tub of hot water. What happens when you put a woman in a tub of hot water as her uterus opens up and pushes out. And so when he put her in that tub of hot water, the last little bit of blood in her body actually pushed out. And the boyfriend called back and said, she's unconscious. And the doctor said, rush her to the hospital. And she was taken to a major hospital right here in town, and she was technically dead. The problem I have with that is no one at that hospital ever called the newspaper. None of the emergency room doctors ever reported it to anyone. None of the nurses in there ever called a newspaper, reported it. It was a, Friday night that she came in. We were doing abortions that Saturday morning, and no one knew that a woman had died as a result of that abortion the night before. And then even worse than that, her body was sent over for an autopsy, and the coroner checked it and found that she died as a result of a cervical tear, a tear of the mouth of the womb, which could have been repaired if the doctor had just taken more time. We had everything right there in the clinic, and the coroner did nothing. No one ever knew that woman died in our abortion clinic.
John Nieder
In my conversation with Carol, she tells the story, an amazing story, of how one church and the leadership of that church believed that they could reach out to this abortion clinic and to the owners of the abortion clinic. And the person that they really focused on was Carol Everett. And so I asked Carol to take us back to that abortion clinic when she had that bible on her desk. And she told me every day she prayed.
Carol Everett
Well, I prayed about those abortions all the time. Every day. I prayed that we'd have a lot and that there would be no complications. And I had a grandmother that prayed. But we were moving along. We were, going to open three more clinics. Yes, I was at $125,000 in July of 1973. I'd already made that much. And then plan to make $260,000 that year, open three more clinics, and I would be making a million dollars a year. And that was my goal. That's where we were headed. But if we were going to do that, we needed to get a few problems straightened out. And of course, the problems were between the partners. And so I called our financial advisor, and he sent in what he told us or introduced to us as a business consultant. He sat down with each of us for an hour, the three partners, for an hour, brought us back together for a fourth hour and gave us a piece of paper with six points on it. And all six of these points were in my favor. And so I started asking him questions, and finally, I'm not sure why, I said, are you a preacher? And he said, yes. And I said, what in the world are you doing in this situation? And he said, God sent me. And I said, wait a m minute. I am a Christian. I have a Bible in my desk drawer, and I tithe on all this abortion money. And God doesn't talk to people. Well, as you might understand, it took a lot of time, a lot of discussion. But he actually told me that not only he, but he and his elders felt that they had been called into this situation. They felt there was someone in there that the Lord wanted out and actually had given them a 30 day period of time in which to do that. And I thought, he is crazy. But, you know, we pray to prayer of salvation that day. Well, I thought I was a Christian. I didn't think that was going to change my life. And asked me if I wanted to receive Christ. And for some reason I said yes. And we prayed this really weird prayer, to make me a worker in your vineyard. And I went, okay, I'll pray that, you know, no problem with that. And dismissed it, thinking nothing was going to change. I was going to go back into the abortion clinic, continue doing abortions, and my life would not be a, moment's difference anywhere. But when I went back in the abortion clinic, I started seeing that these women were not dancing in, saying, I'm finally pregnant. I'm here for my abortion. I saw women that were hurting women that were saying, I want to do something else. This is the last place I want to be. And surprisingly, I found myself counseling women not to have an abortion. And that really confused me.
And I went back to the counselor, to the preacher and said, you know, I can't believe what's just started happening this week. And he said, it hasn't just started happening this week, Carol, your eyes have just been open. You've just started to see it.
John Nieder
And the reason she started to see it is she was now forgiven, she was saved. She was born from above. She now had the Holy Spirit of God working within her, and she began to look at the world through the lens of the word of God. And then when she looked at the abortion clinic and how she approached these girls, everything began to change. And, you know, when someone has had an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ, has trusted in him as Savior, has received the gift of eternal life, and now has the Holy Spirit living within that person's life ought to change. And in Carol's case, the change became rather dramatic.
Carol Everett
Rather quickly and literally, I did fall to my knees in that abortion clinic. And my prayer at that time was, Lord, if there is a lord, if this is not where you want me, hit me over the head with a two by four. And I kept dancing around in the clinic, waiting and waiting. But I didn't have long to wait, because a television station here in the Dallas area, the woman that I described earlier in the week, came in wired for sound for 2 hours. There were six, a total of six women that came in the clinic. But we so convinced her for 2 hours that she was pregnant that she left our clinic and went to her doctor. And after he told her she was not pregnant, then for five days, this television station exposed us, as doing abortions on women that were not pregnant. And that was my answer to prayer, 27 days after I met with the preacher, • his 30 day deadline. And I did indeed have that unbelievable peace that does surpass all understanding, that I was to walk out and that He was going to take care of me no matter what.
John Nieder
Carol Everett has experienced the faithfulness of God since she,left that abortion clinic. In fact, the Lord has used her in tremendous ways, including appearing before the leadership of our country on a number of occasions to testify to the realities of what takes place in an abortion clinic.
Now, when it comes to Carol, I asked her the question that I'm sure probably weighs on your heart, especially if you have tragically had an abortion. And that is, how do you find and experience God's forgiveness? In Carol's case, she was instrumental in the execution murder of 35,000 unborn babies. And she had to face that. She had to deal with that. Can you imagine the burden of that? And so I asked Carol to tell me, how did you process this? How did you reach the point where you could continue to function? And of course, my prayer was that the Lord would use her to rescue that many and many more babies as, she went forward now knowing Jesus Christ as savior. But the question of forgiveness. Here's what Carol had to share.
Carol Everett
We never think that we're good enough to experience God's forgiveness, and, of course, we don't deserve it, but he gives it so graciously. And, of course, about six months after I became a Christian, I found the 139th psalm. and that was when I realized that I'd been involved in the deaths of over 35,000 babies. And as only our Lord can, He started working me through them one by one. You know, He never gives us more than we can handle. And I came to understand that forgiveness. But I. I could not deal with the fact that I'd kill my own baby. And actually, only a year ago did I deal with that. So I was actually speaking out for two years against abortion, but not dealing with the fact that I'd killed my own child. And when I finally confessed that to Him and gave it to Him, I went through a grieving process that's very similar to losing a member of your family that's here. And as we talk about that baby that I killed, I still feel as though it were a baby, it was a son, it was actually born, and it was a part of my life. And when those women understand that and deal with that and give it to the Lord, he can handle it, and he can help us to understand what we're to do.
John Nieder
Have you have had an abortion and you're struggling with experiencing God's forgiveness, I want to encourage you to get alone or be there with a trusted friend and just begin to pour your heart out to the Lord and to claim what he tells us, clearly in his word, is the extent of the forgiveness we can receive when we've trusted in Jesus Christ as savior. It's as if our sins are as far as the east is from the west. That's how far our sins are removed from us. And, in fact, one of the images that we find in the scriptures when it comes to forgiveness is the idea that something is hidden behind God's back because he's dealt with it through the blood of Christ. Why would you continue to try and look for that sin that you committed • when it's been covered by the sacrifice of the cross? There are a number of different images of experiencing God's forgiveness, His incredible grace, and so claim that, experience that, and then ask for Him to bring healing to your heart and the sense of loss that you may have. And it's good to share this with a trusted friend who loves the Lord and can join you in praying through this and working through, any of the residual emotions that may come, as you process and experience the fullness of God's forgiveness.
I then went on and I asked Carol to do something kind of interesting. I said, carol, I'd like you to talk to, well, essentially a younger version of yourself, a young woman who is. Is doing extremely well. She's married and she has a couple of children, • • • and now she's pregnant, and she just doesn't have time for this baby, and her husband's pushing her to get an abortion. And it just seems like it's going to knock her off this fast track to ultimate success. And she comes to you and says, I don't even know why I'm talking to you, but, you know, someone said I should. And I asked Carol, how would you speak to that woman? And again, in so many ways, what I've just set up, is what, was the situation that Carol was in, when she had an abortion?
Carol Everett
I understand where you are. I was in the same position, and I made the same choice that you're making. I made the choice to kill my baby, and it has affected the remainder of my life. First of all, I was immediately out of that marvelous job that I had that I thought was so great. And I also lost the man that I thought I was having the abortion to keep and everything in my life self destructive. What's even worse than that is I started trying to destroy myself. I don't know what happens, but I do know that when a woman knows she's pregnant, she is pregnant. And I'm sure that if you will admit it, that you are feeling feelings of your body accommodating that pregnancy, and maybe you won't admit that to me because I wouldn't admit it. But the moment you take that baby, you're going to know that you've killed that baby, and you're going to know that you are ultimately responsible. Oh, sure, you'll repress it, and sure, you'll run from it, but you will run from it in self destructive tendencies. And you need to know that abortion is affecting not only that baby, who is very much alive at this moment. You are killing that baby, and it will feel every bit of that pain. It does know what's going on. But you, too, will feel that pain for years and years and years. It's something that, yes, we're supposed to think is safe and legal and very simple, but it is the most destructive thing that is happening to women in our society today.
John Nieder
Well, let me just say thank you for joining us. I have been sharing the last couple of days the testimony of Carol Everett. It's a wonderful story of the grace of God operating in the life of this dear woman who the Lord has used in some tremendous ways in order to counter the holocaust of the womb. And that's really what it is. And I, am just thrilled to think that we can continue to extend, Carol's ministry to those who are dealing with abortion.